* * spoilers * * Speculations and discussion Book 7 Options

[McGonagall's Cat]

I just found a comment over at TLC that sort of confirms the idea of the Deathly Hallows being people :

(shantih @ Dec 27 2006, 09:37 AM)

Deathly hallows was translated into my language approximately as "holy persons of death". That's why I'm sure the title refers to persons, not to horcruxes or Harry's death.

I am thinking that they could be something along the lines of a secret - more secret than that - part of the Order. A group that no one knows about unless one is a member of it, that will assit Harry finish his missions. Wizarding ninjas.

While it doesn't have to be part of the Order (JKR's introduced us to a completely new concept with each of the titles and this could be a totally new organization that she will bring to us) it seems logical that they would be affiliated. Emaline Vance, Dumbledore (sorry, but the Spell's tossing him over the ramparts was wrong for it to be a real Avada Kedavera), Regulus as Stubby Boardman, many others could be the equivalent of "The Polish Underground".

[zymurgy]

The Deathly Hallows are washed up Inferi, that walk around to creap you out and say "Hallow, hallow, anybody home? Hallloooow?" right about when you started to believe they were realy dead.

[McGonagall's Cat]

Well, now that Zym's told us the whole plot and everything, what should we speculate on?

[chad13]

The idea of it being an organization/ people is right up at the top of the most likely list. I've been thinking if it's not a person it may have something to do with Voldemort's fearing death. Deathly Hallows can also mean something like Death Like respect. With his soul split in pieces Voldemort definatley does not respect death in the way he should as either an end for himself or as a power. Deathly Hallows may refer to something not necessarily the opposite of a horcrux, but some form of something that could help take down TDL.

[McGonagall's Cat]

It's too bad we don't have a better feel for for how TDL would react to a face-to-face with a wizard he believes to be dead.
While he did create a ton of Infiri, those are all under his control and he KNOWS they are dead and can't hurt him.
It could cause him to have heart failure, or lose his powers momentarily, if someone he believes to be dead were to show up in front of him.
That could be an amazing tool for the good guys' side.

[chad13]

Wouldn't that be an ending?! haha, Voldemort goes down due to a heart attack

[lupinsmyman]

Ha ha yeah!

"I'm sorry Mr. Malfoy, he got hit with one too many cheering charms which caused cardiac arrest. Oops."

[lupinsmyman]

OMG I just heard a brilliant theory on PotterCast that has pretty much turned my brain to mush.

In an email,Angela (?) states that she believes Harry will have to return to Godric's Hollow the night his parents died. He will witness something there that will help him defeat Voldemort.

She says that Harry is the "other person" at Godric's Hollow and the he is the one who gives Dumbledore information. This is how Dumbledore knew what to do with baby Harry and why he let him face dangers at school. Because he knew he would survive.

This would be difficult for Harry because he would want to save his parents but if he did it would change the world as he knew it.


Now maybe Snape was there and had some sort of confrontation with Harry and this is why he hates him so much.



~~~~~~~

So maybe Harry return to GH to see exactly what happens to Voldemort. We know that Lily's sacrifice is what saved Harry but we don't know how or why. Perhaps he needs to view what his mother did to cause a flaw in the killing curse.

And if he confronts Snape, who might have been more on the bad side then, Snape might be forced to make a Fidelius Charm/Unbreakable Vow so he cannot tell Voldemort about Harry.

In killing Dumbledore, he will have been released from the charm or vow.

Harry will be in a race against time trying to defeat Voldy before Snape leaks information. This is assuming that Snape is not on the good side. Unfortunately, we don't know where his loyalties lie.


This is all I got. What do you think?

[McGonagall's Cat]

Does he need to actually be there, or would it be enough to see it all in the Pensieve?

We don't have any evidence for any way for a wizard to travel that far in time, but the rest of it has merit.

[chad13]

Snape did put certian memories of his into (Dumbledore's(?)) pensieve during occlumency lessons in OOTP didn't he?

[McGonagall's Cat]

Yes he did! Good catch, Chad!




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


So we were sitting around singing "Home Sweet Home" in several assorted keys this afternoon and the words are:

Home, Sweet Home

Traditional
Written By: John H. Payne
Music By: Henry R. Bishop
Copyright Unknown





'Mid pleasures and palaces
Though we may roam,
Be it ever so humble,
There's no place like home.
A charm from the skies
Seems to hallow us there,
Which seek thro' the world,
Is ne'er met with elsewhere.
Home, home, sweet sweet home,
There's no place like home,
There's no place like home.

I gaze on the moon
As I tread the drear wild,
And feel that my mother
Now thinks of her child;
As she looks on that moon
From our own cottage door,
Thro' the woodbine whose fragrance
Shall cheer me no more.
Home, home, sweet sweet home,
There's no place like home,
There's no place like home.

An exile from home,
Splendor dazzles in vain,
Oh, give me my lowly
Thatched cottage again;
The birds singing gaily,
That came at my call:
Give me them and that
Peace of mind, dearer than all.
Home, home, sweet sweet home,
There's no place like home,
There's no place like home.

So in this context, Hallows means something similar to blessings. Deathly Blessings could be Harry's willingness to use strong magic. Snape must have left the book on Dumbledore's orders....

What do you think?

[zymurgy]

Considering how she pulled a fast one on us with the last title, this one probably REALY means 'Deathly HELLOS' because the DE will turn absolutely merciless and kill anybod that says 'hello,' to them. Death Eaters always say 'Hallllooooow,' and when you look up, they drop on you.
To which MovieRon replies: I'm looking d-d-d-d-d-down, Harry.

... the Prince wasn't a prince either.

[timeturner]

The title is tricky. I think Hallows means something sacred (blessing is good). And, I'm sorry, I just can't get off my opposite of a horcrux theory. I believe Lily studied the art of Love at the DoM. It was her job-almost sure of it. And I know that it was important. This Hallows things has something to do with Lily, something to do with Harry, and something to do with love and loyalty (which I think are the overall themes of the book, surviving death aside).

JK always told us there would be no prequels because we would get enough backstory by the end of the series. Now there is a change her definition of "enough" and mine differ, but I'm thinking we will get a lot more on James and Lily in book 7. If Dumbledore is gone, we only have three ways of getting such info:

-Snape (likely, but depending on what he says, will Harry ever believe him?)
-Pensieve (DD and Snape may have memories in there. It is likely that we will learn the real reason DD trusts Snape through the Penseive)
-Time Travel (I'd like to think this is likely. Even though no one has ever travelled this far back that we know of and according to Hermione, all the timeturners were smashed in the DoM, time travel would give us the best bird's eye view of what happened at Godric's Hollow)

With every book, we've learned the significance of the title almost right away. (Except HBP) I'm not sure that will happen in Book Seven. Whatever Hallows is, it will be the final stopper. The death of TDL.

[McGonagall's Cat]

If Dumbledore is gone, we only have three ways of getting such info:

-Snape (likely, but depending on what he says, will Harry ever believe him?)
-Pensieve (DD and Snape may have memories in there. It is likely that we will learn the real reason DD trusts Snape through the Penseive)
-Time Travel (I'd like to think this is likely. Even though no one has ever travelled this far back that we know of and according to Hermione, all the timeturners were smashed in the DoM, time travel would give us the best bird's eye view of what happened at Godric's Hollow)

Your thoughts are solid and logical, but there are other ways of gleaning info.
One might be sort of a "Snape (b)" category, in that, there could be OTHERS with first-hand knowledge. Snape is the one who seems to be the most directly involved and the one we already know the most about, or suspect the most about, but there could be others who were someplace at the right time and place. What about the real Mad-Eye? Or any of several teachers or shopkeeppers? In each book she's introduced a new character or two, or made a minor one more prominent, so it is possible one of those will know/share important info.

This could count as "Snape ©" as it is still first-person knowledge -
The Portraits have to know things. At the very least they have observed and discussed with Dumbledore as he unraveled the Horcrux mysteries and fought the first fight with TDL. We think of Dippet as a bit ineffectual, but he knew Tom Riddle first-hand. I think there are possibilities in this direction.

I agree with you about her idea of "enough" not being my idea of the same. I want to know, in detail, how both James and Lily AND Alice and Frank "thrice defied". She'll touch on it, but I doubt it will be "enough". And there are so many other things.... *sigh*

Good thoughts! *wanders off pondering the possibilities*

[McGonagall's Cat]

Dark Harry Theory

The North American cover shows Harry and Voldemort together. My first take on it was that Harry was calling down something and Voldemort was recoiling from it.

HOWEVER -

In going back through the books (before I re-read them before Book 7 is released) :

In Ch.7 of Stone Harry has a dream that he forgets. In it V is telling him to transfer to Slytherin, saying, "it is your destiny". We blythly discount that as just being a dream, Harry's fears, or the V connection with Harry through his scar. Is that all there is to it, though?

In Ch.16 of Stone Harry is talking with Ron and Hermione about going back to Privet Dr. and waiting for V, "It's only dying a bit later than I would have, because I'm never going over to the Dark Side." Since no one had mentioned that he might, why would it occur to Harry to say that if it wasn't an awkwardly planted foreshadowing by JKR?

Harry has a very bad tendency to try Dark Magic at the drop of a hat. Early on the spells he tries are fairly wholesome, but it doesn't take long before he tries some of the "heavy duty" ones. Even Snape shouts at him that there will be no dark spells for him (that's paraphrased because I haven't run across it yet in this read-through). Does he keep trying Unforgivables because there is a Dark part of him?

There's the Sorting Hat's dilema, which we usually chalk up to the scar connection, but is it more?

Which brings us to Legillimency. Harry won't be able to stop Voldemort if V wants to take over Harry's thoughts again.

Does the N. American cover show us Harry working WITH Voldemort?